Zybia: Phale: memory management is tricky in complex applications, and C doesn’t help you define the right constraints for memory access and usage buffer overflows are a direct result of this, for example. Sure you *CAN* write a program in C that is correct, but it’s going to be much more work in implementation, testing, verification, debugging, maintaining,
Manliguis: Etc than writing the same program in a language that doesn’t have these problems, like Rust.
Matthew: Even though Rust is still a systems language. Same goes for Go in this particular case, though
Hoh: See thats the problem with software these days, they act like anxious 4 year olds.
Deroos: I’m using lodash and really liking it. Is there anything better in the same vein as it?
Bulgrin: Safety aside, I love me some C
Monfort: Madsy, yes you are not the only one
Auwarter: Phale: please no ageism here.
Iliff: Well im not referring to humans =p
Deroos: Phale: What do you think of Nim?
Mckimley: Hello from Germany! I wonder if i should make some marks on the number keys on my keyboard. I always find it hard to hit the numbers when typing blindly.
Fiorentini: Many people like C, and that’s cool. Liking C isn’t really the problem here.
Merling: Is there a way to enable the “post as guest” checkbox in disqus the commenting system?
Deroos: Phale: its a nice modern language that compiles down to C
Noland: Sounds like useless abstraction to me but i’ll check it out
Jaureguy: Jayjo: you should look at the Disqus do***entation
Deroos: Its like an unmanaged C#, with the aesthetics of Python and the metaprogramming of LISP
Chacon: Phale, it will force to you a GC
Deroos: Yeah but its a GC that has an API
Haire: It can’t be done in the doumentation. I wondered if I could force it with js
Deroos: Its soft-realtime and you can control exactly how it runs
Deroos: Maintain specialized heaps and so on
Hartzfeld: Dolby, yes but you can use parts without rely on the GC like C# unsafe
Thombs: I particularly prefer Rust’s and ATS’s approach to it, with linear types. Of course linear types have their own set of problems, but.
Zylstra: Dolby, the only modern language without a GC that I remembers are ATS and Rust
Deroos: Rust is great for certain usecases
Deroos: Ones where memory safety is absolutely critical
Bartol: Well, that can be said about most languages.
Deroos: Sure, but I remarked on Rust specifically
Vallier: I would hope that safety would be considered critical for every application.
Deroos: Anyway, as far as GC’s goes, Nim’s is very nice, based of OCaml’s without the paralellism problems, Nim’s author did PhD work on them, its a great language check it out!
Deroos: Dolby: that’s ridiculous
Durrette: Deroos, uhm to me Nim don’t rely seems like OCaml
Deroos: Its not like Ocaml at all
Deroos: The GC is inspired by OCaml’s GC design
Pedroncelli: It’s not really ridiculous. Perhaps not practical with today’s technology.
Kotterna: I think that in language/language implementation wars, many people tend to implicitly view security as obviously always more important than other factors. In such case, languages such as C gets a lot of extra flack.
Deroos: Dolby: its an underlying base desire to have memory safety, but there are tons of non-critical applications who benefit from non-NASA levels of reliability and higher developer productivity and so on
Ulstad: Madsy: particularly, correctness and security are two areas I’m fairly concerned with.
Deroos: No one should promote memory unsafety, is what I’m saying :
Cuttitta: Madsy, I like to link this http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~rwh/courses/ppl/phil.html
Emziah: Deroos: why must memory safety and productivity be at odds?